UPDATED! (SEE BELOW)
The latest babble from Babbling Brooks at Crossroads:
The Flagger Proposal: Disrupting and Disrespecting the Confederate Dead?
Posted on August 25, 2013 by Brooks D. Simpson
Spokespeople for the Virginia Flaggers have claimed that the area where they plan to erect a fifty-foot flag pole from which to fly a Confederate flag that would be visible to motorists traveling north on I-95 to Richmond is sacred soil. After all, they argue, Confederate soldiers were stationed there and died there.
They may be right. After all, the area under consideration is near Drewry’s Bluff, site of an 1862 action, as well as a key moment in the 1864 Bermuda Hundred campaign (as this map shows):
(from Beyond the Crater)
Here’s the same area today, with I-95 clearly marked:
From the Times-Dispatch article. "The site is particularly significant because Confederate troops are believed to have camped in and around the area during the Bermuda Hundred campaign, according to Hathaway."You would think that a group dedicated to honoring the sacrifices of Confederate soldiers, including those who gave their lives in the cause of southern independence, might first do a little work to ascertain what just might be in the area before they commenced construction. (How do we know they didn't? How do you know the owner of the property hasn't long since done it?)
What evidence do we have that they have taken steps all of us would recognize as proper and responsible? (We who? YOU? What makes you think you should be provided with such evidence?)
Is the simple claim that this is private property, so that the Flaggers can do whatever they want, regardless of the consequences …. including the disturbance of historical resources (the very ones they claim exist) (they didn't claim any "historical resources" exist there. They just said the area is "particularly significant" because "Confederate troops ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE CAMPED in and around the area...") and the disturbance of Confederates laid to rest in the area … enough to desecrate the very men they claim to honor?
WHO SAID THERE ARE CONFEDERATES LAID TO REST IN THE AREA? It was mentioned that soldiers might have died there. Not the same thing as being buried there. A HISTORIAN DOESN'T KNOW THIS??????We have none other than the Flaggers themselves for alerting us to the possible destruction of valuable cultural and historical resources. (The anger is taking its toll on his composition skills, too.)
NOBODY HAS SAID THERE IS A CEMETERY THERE ... NOBODY HAS SAID CONFEDERATES ARE "LAID TO REST" THERE. PEOPLE SAID THERE WERE CAMPS AND BATTLES NEARBY, AND VERY LIKELY, BECAUSE SOLDIERS DIE IN BATTLE, MEN DIED NEAR THERE. BUT IT IS NOT A CEMETERY. EVEN IF IT WAS, IS SIMPSON CLAIMING THAT ERECTING FLAGS IN CEMETERIES IS "POSSIBLE DESTRUCTION OF VALUABLE AND CULTURAL HISTORICAL RESOURCES?"
My gosh, let's take down all the flags in military cemeteries from border to border and coast to coast, as they are DISTURBING CULTURAL AND HISTORICAL RESOURCES. GET THOSE FLAGS DOWN NOW!
Ya know what would be an even BETTER idea? For you stop pretending you care about anything Confederate, go back to "history" or whatever it is you do, and leave HERITAGE alone. You don't give a rat's patootie about "cultural and historical resources" there. YOU ARE JUST DRIVEN CRAZY BY THE IDEA OF THE FLAG GOING UP, AND YOU'RE DOING WHATEVER YOU CAN TO PREVENT IT.I’m sure various agencies as well as Confederate heritage organizations would appreciate answers to these questions. So would anyone who is against the disruption of Confederate burial sites.
DOUBTFUL, ALL ANYBODY HAS TO DO IS READ WHAT THE FLAGGERS ACTUALLY SAID AND THEN COMPARE IT TO THE COLOSSAL DISTORTIONS OF YOUR LATEST ARTICLE, AND OTHERS BEFORE IT, TO SEE WHAT YOUR TRUE MOTIVE IS. BESIDES ... WHAT BURIAL SITES???!!!???And if the Flaggers refuse or protest this reasonable request, then we know that it’s not about honoring Confederate heritage or the sacrifices of the Confederate soldier, but something quite different.
IT'S NOT A REASONABLE REQUEST. IT IS A FRANTIC, GRASPING-AT-STRAWS, TODDLER-STYLE TEMPER TANTRUM THROWN BY A GROWN MAN WHO IS INFURIATED THAT THE FLAGGERS EXIST, AND DOUBLY ENRAGED THAT THEY'RE PUTTING THIS FLAG UP.Update: For those of you who are concerned about this possible threat to Virginia’s cultural and historic resources, you may want to contact Kristin Kirchen (email@example.com) at Virginia’s Department of Historic Resources.
Have you called, Simpson? If so, do tell us about your conversation with Kristin Kirchen. Tell us what she said. If you haven't called... why not?
==========UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE===========
Comments from Crossroads:Flamethrower:
Connie’s denying that the site is a burial ground.
Well, duh. I'm going by the extremely likelihood that the Virginia Flaggers, when looking at a piece of ground can, you know, recognize a cemetery by... oh ... I don't know ... HEADSTONES... you know, granite, marble, etc, about a foot wide and two feet high, with names, dates and other info etched into the surface.... Since they didn't say they're planning to raise the flag in a cemetery, it is a logical conclusion that the spot is not a cemetery.
Brooks D. Simpson;
The fact is that no one knows what might or might not be there. After all, the Flaggers themselves made claims about the historical nature of the site.
Someone may know. Just because WE don't know, that doesn't mean nobody knows.
Besides "historical nature" and "burial ground" are not synonyms.
Besides again, the Virginia Flaggers did not used the term "historic nature" of the site in the Times Dispatch article. This statement: The site is particularly significant because Confederate troops are believed to have camped in and around the area during the Bermuda Hundred campaign, is attributed to Susan Hathaway by the Times Dispatch. It doesn't say "historic nature." It says, "particularly significant."
What exactly are Connie’s credentials for ascertaining (a) that her fellow Flaggers are full of hot air (b) the significance of the ground in question? Would you take her at her word? For her to make this claim, she’d have to identify the site and open it to inspection to verify her claim. Otherwise, her assertion is worthless.
Pay attention, Simpson and Flamethrower.. Simpson wrote "... and the disturbance of Confederates laid to rest in the area..." the first claim that there are graves, or a cemetery, on the plot where the flag will go up -- a claim not mentioned in any news report I have read.
My statement, "It is not a cemetery," is the logical conclusion to be drawn from information that has been reported in the Times-Dispatch and elsewhere. People said there were camps and battles nearby. Because soldiers die in battle, it is a logical conclusion that men died in the area. However, there were no reports of people claiming that Confederates killed in battle were "laid to rest" there. Ergo, it is not a cemetery.
After all, if she asks how could I know (when I’ve said I don’t, and that it’s an open question), how does she know for sure?
You made a gigantic leap from Susan's comment, "particularly significant," to "Confederates laid to rest" and "Confederate burial sites." There is no indication in the news reports that anybody knows, suspects or believes there are cemeteries or graves located where the flag will go up, or even in the vicinity. This is an extremely transparent attempt on your part to smear and harass the Virginia Flaggers.
Oops. Not working.
Images: U.S. Government