"Interesting to see the wide diversity of the marchers who ranged from white to off-white."
I think we'll be waiting until hell freezes over for him to tell us what's wrong with that. I mean, there has to be SOMEthing wrong with it, or at least significant about it, for him to make a comment, right?
So his concept of diversity is .... color. Yes, that IS interesting. I thought it was food....
Okay, all you white and off-white folks who attended the festivities and commemoration, can you fill me in on some things?
How many fights were reported over the weekend? How many arrests of visitors/marchers? How many injuries/visits to the emergency room? How much rioting? How many rapes? How many plate glass windows broken? How many stores robbed? How many people robbed? How much vandalism? How many vehicles stolen? How many tires slashed?
Any other mischief I've neglected to ask about? Don't be shy, don't hold back. Inquiring minds wanna know! And since it seems unlikely that Mr. Young will tell us what's wrong with white and off-white gatherings, we'll have to try to pin it down ourselves....
Have at it, folks!
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE
We have received the statistics of the number of crimes identified above that were commited by white and off-white marcher attendees of Lee-Jackson Day in Lexington, Virginia. Many thanks to the person who supplied the info:
I guess, whatever is so mean, bad and nasty about white and off-white people getting together with each other, it doesn't seem to be the sort of criminal activity one sometimes finds occurring in situations where crowds gather.Fights ..........................................0
Arrests ....................................... 0
ER trips ...................................... 0
Riots. .......................................... 0
Rapes .......................................... 0
Plate glass broken ........................0
Robberies ....................................0
Vandalism ....................................0
Vehicles stolen. ............................0
Tires slashed ................................0
Dear Ms. Chastain,
ReplyDeleteNo need to wait for hell to freeze over for me to comment.
First, I want to thank you for promoting me to diversity royalty. Perhaps one day you will dub me the Messiah of Miscegenation. I have that to look forward to.
Second, I wanted to ask you why you think that no black people appear to be participating in the march?
Third, In response to my "white to off-white" remark, you asked "what's wrong with that". Here is my thought:
1. The flaggers claim to be defending Southern Heritage.
2. African Americans made up and still make up a significant portion of the Southern population and, hence, its heritage.
3. In 1861-1865 there were approximately 4 million Black Southerners.
4. During the same period there were only 600,000 Confederate soldiers.
5. Therefore, the African American is more representative of the American South during the Confederate period than is the Confederate soldier.
6. In a celebration of two men associated with the Confederate project Lee and Jackson,, you would expect that the more representative group of the Confederacy, African Americans, would appear in large numbers at the march. Instead, while there are no African Americans marching there are more than 100 white people dressed as Confederate soldiers.
It strikes me that the flaggers and other groups seeking to honor the Confederacy should put the marches on hold and recruit more African Americans so they can more accurately depict the demography of the Confederacy. When they have a ratio of 7 blacks to one white Confederate, then they should resume marching.
Mr. Young, I haven't given any thought to why no black people appear to be participating in the march. You leftists are the ones eaten up with race, not us.
ReplyDelete"Southern Heritage" is sometimes a synonym for "Confederate Heritage." It is easy to tell when it is by how it is used. I think you probably realize this, and you're being obtuse on purpose. Honoring Lee and Jackson is an example of Confederate Heritage, even when called Southern Heritage.
Anything can strike you however you wish. If black people ("African Americans" is, IMO, a misrepresentation indulged to placate) want to march to honor these men, I cannot imagine that any organizations taking part in the event would prohibit them. But recruiting blacks to achieve some kind of racial ratio comes from a totally rigid, leftist mindset. It's like NASCAR going "hip-hop" to "recruit African Americans," who don't seem overwhelmingly interested in stock car racing, either as participants or spectators. Not everything has to appeal to everyone.
Howsomever, I will take your suggestion under advisement....
Before I go, though, if you approve of the term African American, presumably for black Americans, what would you call white Americans whose ancestors immigrated here from, say, South Africa? Are they African Americans? If not, why not? And if not, what are they?
Do you see the racial can of worms leftism has opened?
I would like to add to Connie's response to Pat Young.
ReplyDeleteMr. Young, could it be that maybe its impossible for you to grasp that non-Leftists do not view the world through a prism of affirmative action and quotas based on racial identity politics.
Sir, there is absolutely nothing that prohibits anyone no matter what their ethnic background from attending Lee-Jackson Day, Confederate Memorial Day, or any one of the hundreds of marker dedications or Confederate heritage celebrations that take place every year in the United States. So long as such people identity themselves as Southern and have an honest desire to show mutual respect for said heritage and the dead of the Southland.
I would ask you sir, have you yourself ever once attended a Confederate heritage celebration, SCV or UDC event? Ever made any real honest effort to get to know anyone who attends them one on one reasonably?
Ms. Chastain, thank you for your response. You wrote:
ReplyDelete"Mr. Young, I haven't given any thought to why no black people appear to be participating in the march."
And you also wrote: "Before I go, though, if you approve of the term African American, presumably for black Americans, what would you call white Americans whose ancestors immigrated here from, say, South Africa? Are they African Americans? If not, why not? And if not, what are they?"
I find it interesting that the absence of the descendents of a principal constituent of the Confederacy's demography, black slaves, from the Lexington march is a subject to which you have not "given any thought." Yet the question of whether it is appropriate to call black people African Americans fascinates you.
When you say that you have not given the subject of black abscence from Lee-Jackson events any thought, is that because only a fool would wonder at the monochromatic makeup of a parade honoring the defenders of a slaveholders' republic? This is, perhaps, something to be taken for granted, not something to be wondered about.
Mr. Roden, you wrote:
ReplyDelete"there is absolutely nothing that prohibits anyone no matter what their ethnic background from attending Lee-Jackson Day".
As an attorney, I am aware that laws segregating black attendance at events such as the Lexington Lee-Jackson Day parade are no longer in effect. I did not through my question, ask whether legal segregation was still in effect. I merely wondered at the complete absence of descendants of slaves, who likely far out number the descendents of Confederate soldiers.
Since more Southerners are descended from slaves than from Confederate soldiers, doesn't that mean that modern day African Americans are more appropriately described as the bearers of Southern heritage than the sons and daughters of Confederate soldiers and their progeny? Doesn't the absence of these Southerners say something about the men honored in Lexington?
Ms. Chastain: I'm off to a full day of work in Manhattan where I'll be meeting with the members of New York State Immigrant Action, but I just wanted to take a second to ask you about this remark you posted:
ReplyDelete"Okay, all you white and off-white folks who attended the festivities and commemoration [in Lexington], can you fill me in on some things?
How many fights were reported over the weekend? How many arrests of visitors/marchers? How many injuries/visits to the emergency room? How much rioting? How many rapes? How many plate glass windows broken? How many stores robbed? How many people robbed? How much vandalism? How many vehicles stolen? How many tires slashed? "
It begs the question: Is rape, among the other depredations enumerated above, a regular feature of Lee-Jackson Day events? I throw many events in immigrant communities and I can't recall a single instance of rape during or following the event. Is sexual violence something that women attending Lee-Jackson and other Confederate Heritage events should be warned about?
I would be happy to help you spread the word about the rape problem at Confederate Heritage celebrations. I think we both agree that a woman, whatever her race or political opinion, should not have to be afraid that attending a whites-only parade will subject her to sexual violence. I am grateful to you for this information which I will disseminate.
Who cares where Young works.. such hate and bigotry that comes out of a old mans mouth about nothing. Rape and violence? What world you live in.. Oh wait I know a libo world! Where there is no truth just little men like yourself running around waiting to get sued when they slander folks. Being an attorney I would have thought you would have watched your mouth a little closer but being a lib like yourself , you have not the intelligences to do so. Keep the postings coming Young.. I got something for you.
ReplyDeleteYou've aroused my interest Mr. Elephant. You say that you "got something for me". What exactly is it?
DeleteMr. Young, I noticed your use of the term "African American" and I commented on it.
ReplyDeleteIf black people -- or white ones or off-white ones -- think in terms of the civil war being a defense of a "slaveholders' republic," I think they're mistaken, but it's still fine with me if that's how they want to see it, and it's also fine with me if they don't want to participate in Lee Jackson Day for that reason.
However, I myself do not think of the war in terms of a defense of a slaveholders republic but a defense of the Southern people from an invading army, sent by a government and a people who were no better than the folks they were sent to kill. I won't require you or anyone else to see it that way. However, I do resent those who try to force me to see it your way, and who are attempting to remove Confederate memorials using your view of the war. And trying to stop commemoration of the Confederacy based on your view.
If descendants of slaves want to get together and celebrate Juneteenth or whatever, that's fine with me. I find it odd that, several years ago, black activists and liberal whites were calling from the removal of the Confederate flag from public view because it was a "painful remindier of slavery" but then they turned right around and planned a slave museum and slave memorial, etc. Those would not be painful reminders?
Actually, I would not have any objection to such memorials, at all. But I think they would mostly be for white people because blacks don't seem very enthusiastic about keeping and preserving memorials to their history, if Selma is anything to judge by...
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/selma-montgomery-historic-trail-090613?src=spr_FBPAGE&spr_id=1456_22484372"
Selma is 80% black. It receive tons of federal money, some of which could be used for the upkeep of the civil rights memorials. Why do they not keep them up?
Maybe the absence of blacks from Lee-Jackson Day doesn't have all that much to do with who the honorees are, but with who finds it important to remember and honor the past.
Mr. Young, my asking how many of what crimes transpired when all those white and off-white people gathered was to make the point that basically none of those crimes occurred in Lexington over Lee-Jackson weekend. So if there is something wrong about white and off-white people gathering together in celebration or commemoration of something/someone, the wrongness doesn't involve widespread criminal activity.
ReplyDeleteBTW, re: sexual violence ... don't feminists and leftists say rape is not about sex, it's about power? So why isn't the term power violence?
You have to bear with me here. I don't think in terms of ethnicity or quotas when I take things like public events into account.
ReplyDeleteAll Confederate heritage themed events are purely voluntary public events. White Southerners are simply more inclined to go to them as a group, just as more black Southerners are more inclined to go to say Martin Luther King Day parades even though nothing actually prevents whites or Hispanics and Asians for that matter from going.
Black interest in the Civil War itself is sporadic at best, despite those few thousand black Confederates and the 178,000 USCT of the Union.
There is nothing that discourages black Southerners from attending Civil War re-enactments or Confederate heritage gatherings other than harsh stereotypes and Hollywood propaganda wrongly depicting Southern heritage supporters as synonymous with white supremacist radicals.
Now on occasions like Confederate Memorial Day parades black Southerners (as well as Hispanics) will watch and make inquiries and a handful will join in to learn more. Those that do are usually surprised and pleased to learn that proud Confederate descendants are hospitable when someone isn't yelling obscenities in their faces and making prejudgements.
Hopefully in the coming decades and the knowledge of black participation in the War for the South becomes more well known it might well encourage more younger people of color to take an interest.
By the same token there is also nothing that specifically encourages anyone to attend such events. Usually they are advertised ahead of time in local papers and media as a public event. Beyond that there's nothing that requires affirmative action type quotas.
Mr Young, your suggestion that the Flaggers and UDC and SCV should put things on hold in order to "more accurately depict the demography" of the South is simply not feasible, nor practical.
If one were to put off events because the "racial quotas" were not accurate to the demographics then Scottish games would be called off, NASCAR, the NFL and College football which has more white people watching than playing - ditto the NBA, Cinco De Mayo festivals in heavily black and white areas, ect.
Also I have often failed to understand how a truly colorblind society is supposed to achieve that goal when such quotas are a requirement and a constant focus. I always believed that "colorblind" means not focusing on skin color. I suppose I blame my personal education and common sense on that particular mix-up.
I might also add that if one were to put gatherings on hold because of "demographic inaccuracy" then virtually every Civil War event in America would have to be put on hold since despite the 178,000 black men who served in the USCT and the 10,000 odd Black Confederates there is virtually no black participation at Civil War reenactments.
ReplyDeleteIndeed there is, to my knowledge, only about two or so Black Union re-enactor regiments in America despite the legions that actually served the Union. I've met and know several members of the 54th Massachussetts re-enactors personally, decent guys who love the whole re-enactor experience...that is if you like camping out and freezing your ass off in cold weather and getting bedbugs. It was never my thing, but I don't knock the guys who actually do like it.
White and off-white only? Sounds very much like the gang hanging out over at Crossroads. White and off-white only? Sounds very much like the faculty in the Aeronautics department at the USAFA. The list of white and off white could go on and on and on, so where is the outrage from these miserable limousine-liberal frauds? Nevertheless, white and off-white is always far preferable to a gathering of parasitic, filthy, lawless Hispanic banditito illegal alien immigrants. Certainly the white and off-white folks at Crossroads thinkso.
ReplyDelete"Austin said...
ReplyDeleteWhite and off-white only? Nevertheless, white and off-white is always far preferable to a gathering of parasitic, filthy, lawless Hispanic banditito illegal alien immigrants."
Ms. Chastain, I appreciate your openness to the full diversity of white and off-white racism.
Mr. Young, I'm not certain that what you pasted of Austin's comment is actually how he feels ... I think it is rhetoric to show that the people who accuse others of "racism" and "whites supremacy" -- people like Simpson and Meyer -- often live exactly as "white supremacists" do.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, they LIVE very much like the people who DO have that kind of belief about hispanics but they can't let their de facto racism be revealed to the world. So they hope to mask it, or at least hope to divert attention from it, by pointing at someone else and screaming, "RACIST!" And doing it over and over and over.
That seems to be a repeated point in Austin's comments -- the hypocrisy of these name-callers and slanderers who themselves live very white and off-white lives -- or who, at the very least, do not criticize white supremacy and racism that are close to them. I mean, what is Simpson doing to even out the 75% WHITE faculty at ASU? Anything? It's a lot more showy and "praiseworthy" to shine the spotlight on one's "outrage" over a bunch of fraternity punks for their MLK party.... More satisfying, too....
Curious, I think, that the reply did not acknowledge the white and off-white nature of the other entities I referenced. Why is there no outrage, or ridicule, regarding the white and off white faculty in the department of computer science faculty at ASU? Why is that bald, bespecaled, fearless, intrepid, resolute crusader of ethnic diversity not tirelessly, assiduously, viciously, and publicly attacking ASU for its egregious and glaring deficiencies?
ReplyDeleteBecause he, and that entire crowd of whites and off whites at Crossroads are miserable limousine-liberal hypocritical frauds.
Austin said...
ReplyDelete"Curious, I think, that the reply did not acknowledge the white and off-white nature of the other entities I referenced. Why is there no outrage, or ridicule, regarding the white and off white faculty in the department of computer science faculty at ASU? Why is that bald, bespecaled, fearless, intrepid, resolute crusader of ethnic diversity not tirelessly, assiduously, viciously, and publicly attacking ASU for its egregious and glaring deficiencies?
Because he, and that entire crowd of whites and off whites at Crossroads are miserable limousine-liberal hypocritical frauds."
Mr. Austin: Since the reply that you speak of was written by me, I have no idea why you think I would write about ASU's computer science department. I have never been to ASU. I teach law at Hofstra University in New York not computer science at ASU.
Mr. Young, you don't have any concerns about the lack of diversity, or deficient levels of it, at public universities in other states? Doesn't it strike you as being a bit hypocritical for Brooks Simpson to yammer about other people's racism and their lack of diversity when the faculty at the university where he teaches is 75% white?
ReplyDeleteAccording to this website (which cites Census Bureau statistics), Arizona is 58.5 percent white. If Southern heritage folks should stop marching andany other public displays until their racial make up matches the Confederacy's, shouldn't Arizona State's faculty match the racial makeup of the state? Shouldn't some of those white faculty members be fired, and minorities hired?
http://arizonaindicators.org/demographics/demographics-overview
Is Hofstra the only place where diversity and other race issues matter to you? If so, why the interest in Lee-Jackson Day in Lexington where you noticed that the marchers were "white and off-white?"
And if you do have a genuine concern about these things in Virginia, regarding the VaFlaggers, why no concern about the lack of diversity at ASU?
Ms. Chastain, you wrote:
ReplyDelete"Mr. Young, you don't have any concerns about the lack of diversity, or deficient levels of it, at public universities in other states? Doesn't it strike you as being a bit hypocritical for Brooks Simpson to yammer about other people's racism and their lack of diversity when the faculty at the university where he teaches is 75% white?
According to this website (which cites Census Bureau statistics), Arizona is 58.5 percent white. If Southern heritage folks should stop marching andany other public displays until their racial make up matches the Confederacy's, shouldn't Arizona State's faculty match the racial makeup of the state? Shouldn't some of those white faculty members be fired, and minorities hired?
http://arizonaindicators.org/demographics/demographics-overview
Is Hofstra the only place where diversity and other race issues matter to you? If so, why the interest in Lee-Jackson Day in Lexington where you noticed that the marchers were "white and off-white?"
And if you do have a genuine concern about these things in Virginia, regarding the VaFlaggers, why no concern about the lack of diversity at ASU?"
My comment was addressed to Mr. Austin, who seems to be confusing me with Professor Brooks Simpson of ASU.
As to your other points, I am concerned with diversity throughout our educational system. As you may know, Arizona has been a particular object of my writing because of that state's discriminatory policies. I have written more than a dozen articles critical of state policies in Arizona that prevent full academic participation there. I am glad that you share my concern with this problem in that state.
I am also encouraging the enrollment of a more diverse student body at my own university's school of law. Perhaps your readers can join me in petitioning my administration to strengthen recruitment efforts in the black and Latino communities. Although a majority of my students are from formerly underrepresented groups, this is not true of the law school as a whole. I agree with you that it is something we need to rectify.
Mr. Young,
ReplyDeleteI will repeat Connie's very reasonable question; if you are only interested in social and diversity issues in New Jersey and Hofstra University, why do you have any interest at all in what occurs in Lexington, Virginia? And a few additional points. Below is a link to the faculty in the Department of Engineering and Applied Sciences at Hofstra. Note there are no African-Americans. Yet Hofstra has an African-American student population of approximately 9%. Why are you not leading a very vocal, very aggressive, and very public campaign to right this egregious and shameful injustice? And I also assume you are leading a determined campaign to wipe-out that hate group La Raza wherever it exists in New Jersey. This, as you know, is an organization which works to advance the cause of one ethnicity only; Hispanics. There are no Caucasians, Muslims, Indians, Hebrews, or Native Americans on whose behalf they work. This is clearly a non-diverse hate group. You are working to eliminate this group in New Jersey, aren't you?
The link, if I forgot it...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hofstra.edu/Academics/Colleges/hclas/ENGNR/engnr_faculty.html
Mr. Austin, you wrote in part:
ReplyDeleteI will repeat Connie's very reasonable question; if you are only interested in social and diversity issues in New Jersey ... And I also assume you are leading a determined campaign to wipe-out that hate group La Raza wherever it exists in New Jersey... You are working to eliminate this group in New Jersey, aren't you?"
I read what you wrote and was puzzled -Why New Jersey? It is an OK state, I guess, but I am just not certain why I would make that the focus of my attention. Why not Delaware or Vermont instead?
I thought Hofstra was in New Jersey; who knew? Anyway, it seems you gave a great deal of work to do Patrick. As it turns out, Hofstra is a hot-bed of nefarious and invidious racism. Below is a link to the full-time faculty page of the LAW SCHOOL at Hofstra, and of a total of 46 law professors on staff, ONLY 1 IS AFRICAN-AMERIAN! ONLY 1!! I know you won't let this stand, and am confident you will begin immediately to torment, taunt, harass, and harangue these racists (just like you do the Virginia Flaggers)until this monstrous injustice is remedied. But you have much more work to do. After you clean this up, you need to apply all those moralistic and righteous pressures to the Departments of Mathematics, Computer Science, Economics, and Chemistry (for starters) where Afrian-Americans are either woefully, disgustingly unrepresented, or, get this, not represented at all. Remember, be as nasty and aggressive with these people as you are with the Flaggers. After all, you are dealing with unrepentant racists. You go get 'em now.
ReplyDeletePS- If you want to resign is protest and not accept another tainted penny from these bigots, everyone, I am sure, will understand.
PPS-Below is a link to a Hofstra Law School event. Click on the image to enlarge it. You will see a sea of bright shiny white faces. In this photo, not even an off-white face can be seen.
http://law.hofstra.edu/news/articles/2011/05/grad-awards.html
Doesn't there have to be an audience (crowd) in order for there to be any sort of violence? From the photographs, there appeared to more individuals in the parade that actually witnessed the parade.
ReplyDeleteThe law-school faculty link...
ReplyDeletethe law school faculty link
ReplyDeletehttp://law.hofstra.edu/directory/faculty/fulltime/
Austin:
ReplyDeleteU.S. News ranks Hofstra 45th most diverse law school out of approximately 175 schools. Not great, but still in the top quarter. Below is a link to the ranking:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/law-school-diversity-rankings/page+2
I agree with you that Hofstra can do a lot better. Like you, I am working to increase diversity at my institution. You can help by sending a letter to Hofstra expressing your support for my work. I have already let the dean know that you think we should be expanding diversity instead of resting on our laurels.
As you probably know, my own class is a minority-majority class. It is model learning laboratory that encourages cross cultural communication and respect for linguistic, racial, and sexual minorities. Perhaps youwould like to visit to see the work we are doing.
Actually Ray the crowd number as I understand it was double the number in the parade. Remember its about a three mile parade.
ReplyDelete